Comments on: Absurdity of the “group” exemption http://www.gaysdefendmarriage.com/2009/04/27/absurdity-of-the-group-exemption/ A website for LGBT folks who support marriage as the union of husband and wife—and getting the gay leadership to return to more pressing LGBT issues for our community. Mon, 30 Aug 2010 20:49:24 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Marty http://www.gaysdefendmarriage.com/2009/04/27/absurdity-of-the-group-exemption/#comment-15632 Marty Thu, 30 Apr 2009 13:34:26 +0000 http://www.gaysdefendmarriage.com/?p=142#comment-15632 "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone, for any reason." Freedom of association is a 2 sided coin. It includes freedom of dissociation. “We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone, for any reason.”

Freedom of association is a 2 sided coin. It includes freedom of dissociation.

]]> By: Mark Barton http://www.gaysdefendmarriage.com/2009/04/27/absurdity-of-the-group-exemption/#comment-15557 Mark Barton Thu, 30 Apr 2009 04:59:07 +0000 http://www.gaysdefendmarriage.com/?p=142#comment-15557 DB: "I’ve been thinking about the group-but-not-individual exemption in Connecticut’s and Vermont’s gay-marriage bills. How would that apply, for example, to a Christian rock band? They’re certainly a “religious organization,” right?" I'd allow them as a religious group on the principle of "expressive association". Caterers who happen to be Christian on the other hand, not so much. DB: "Does that mean that a Christian rock solo artist could be forced to work at a same-sex wedding, but if she threatens to bring a drummer, she’s exempt?" Just because I'm a nice guy I'd allow a Christian rock solo artist under the principle of expressive association, even though she/he's not actually associating with anyone. Or maybe I'd allow it on general principles of free speech. I'd certainly want to see some actual speech. DB: “I’ve been thinking about the group-but-not-individual exemption in Connecticut’s and Vermont’s gay-marriage bills. How would that apply, for example, to a Christian rock band? They’re certainly a “religious organization,” right?”

I’d allow them as a religious group on the principle of “expressive association”. Caterers who happen to be Christian on the other hand, not so much.

DB: “Does that mean that a Christian rock solo artist could be forced to work at a same-sex wedding, but if she threatens to bring a drummer, she’s exempt?”

Just because I’m a nice guy I’d allow a Christian rock solo artist under the principle of expressive association, even though she/he’s not actually associating with anyone. Or maybe I’d allow it on general principles of free speech. I’d certainly want to see some actual speech.

]]> By: Fitz http://www.gaysdefendmarriage.com/2009/04/27/absurdity-of-the-group-exemption/#comment-14984 Fitz Mon, 27 Apr 2009 19:33:14 +0000 http://www.gaysdefendmarriage.com/?p=142#comment-14984 David (for example) of above... This post from law professor Michael Scaperlanda in an ongoing discussion of same-sex "marriage" and religious liberty at "Mirror of Justice" law blog. <i> "But, I wonder if it isn't a tad naïve to think that religious liberty will really be secure without a fundamental shift in our nation's anthropological foundations. We might secure short-term protection, but my bet is that these protections erode over time – possibly very quickly." </i> I would agree with that general assessment.., Original Post here : http://mirrorofjustice.blogs.com/mirrorofjustice/2009/04/securing-religious-liberty-in-an-age-of-growing-intolerance.html David (for example) of above…

This post from law professor Michael Scaperlanda in an ongoing discussion of same-sex “marriage” and religious liberty at “Mirror of Justice” law blog.

“But, I wonder if it isn’t a tad naïve to think that religious liberty will really be secure without a fundamental shift in our nation’s anthropological foundations. We might secure short-term protection, but my bet is that these protections erode over time – possibly very quickly.”

I would agree with that general assessment..,

Original Post here :

http://mirrorofjustice.blogs.com/mirrorofjustice/2009/04/securing-religious-liberty-in-an-age-of-growing-intolerance.html

]]> By: Fitz http://www.gaysdefendmarriage.com/2009/04/27/absurdity-of-the-group-exemption/#comment-14981 Fitz Mon, 27 Apr 2009 19:20:11 +0000 http://www.gaysdefendmarriage.com/?p=142#comment-14981 From a lawyer _ nobody knows. That’s not to say that multiple in-depth opinions are not already available. However this situation (i.e. marriage) is so unique and its implications so massive that all such questions are up for a myriad of legal opinions, all of which are potentially valid. On top of that you have a 40 year tradition of legal scholarship hostile to religion and dismissive of religious liberty claims. However: I think the question is a very good one ... all I can say is I don’t have a strong answer, and that anyone who tells you they do is not being honest. From a lawyer _ nobody knows. That’s not to say that multiple in-depth opinions are not already available. However this situation (i.e. marriage) is so unique and its implications so massive that all such questions are up for a myriad of legal opinions, all of which are potentially valid.

On top of that you have a 40 year tradition of legal scholarship hostile to religion and dismissive of religious liberty claims.

However: I think the question is a very good one … all I can say is I don’t have a strong answer, and that anyone who tells you they do is not being honest.

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