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	<title>Comments on: Whatsa motto with you?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.gaysdefendmarriage.com/2009/01/12/whatsa-motto-with-you/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.gaysdefendmarriage.com/2009/01/12/whatsa-motto-with-you/</link>
	<description>A website for LGBT folks who support marriage as the union of husband and wifeâ€”and getting the gay leadership to return to more pressing LGBT issues for our community.</description>
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		<title>By: Chairm</title>
		<link>http://www.gaysdefendmarriage.com/2009/01/12/whatsa-motto-with-you/#comment-2006</link>
		<dc:creator>Chairm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaysdefendmarriage.com/?p=119#comment-2006</guid>
		<description>David, I think you are observing a politician without much of an actual record on the big national issues. His slate is larglely blank. So, yep, all sides hope he means what they want him to mean.

Obama: &quot;nor am I willing to accept a readingof the Bible that considers an obscure line in Romans to be more defining of Christianity than the Sermon on the Mount&quot;.

That remark from the president-elect reveals his very thin understanding of both parts of the Bible that he mentioned. But it is hard to say with certainty because the quote does not reveal which line in Romans is supposedly &quot;obscure&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, I think you are observing a politician without much of an actual record on the big national issues. His slate is larglely blank. So, yep, all sides hope he means what they want him to mean.</p>
<p>Obama: &#8220;nor am I willing to accept a readingof the Bible that considers an obscure line in Romans to be more defining of Christianity than the Sermon on the Mount&#8221;.</p>
<p>That remark from the president-elect reveals his very thin understanding of both parts of the Bible that he mentioned. But it is hard to say with certainty because the quote does not reveal which line in Romans is supposedly &#8220;obscure&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: David Benkof</title>
		<link>http://www.gaysdefendmarriage.com/2009/01/12/whatsa-motto-with-you/#comment-1997</link>
		<dc:creator>David Benkof</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 12:13:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaysdefendmarriage.com/?p=119#comment-1997</guid>
		<description>The WCT story is *very* interesting. I&quot;m surprised it hasn&#039;t gotten more play. Thanks for sharing it. Some reservations:

1. I spent eight years working in the gay press. Tracy Baim is not that highly respected. Her paper, though, has some good stuff in it.
2. I know as much as anyone the value of religious transformation. People can evolve on religious-related issues, and not only for political expediency.
3. I&#039;m beginning to think Obama is the most skilled politician of the last 50 years. He&#039;s got people thinkin he agrees with them on both sides on trade, education, the Middle East, and health care, just to name a few issues. This may just be one more example.
4. If Obama&#039;s support for civil unions instead of marriage is strategic, and not real, he has done a great job of hiding it. Whether that makes him a great politician or a lousy one is completely arguable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The WCT story is *very* interesting. I&#8221;m surprised it hasn&#8217;t gotten more play. Thanks for sharing it. Some reservations:</p>
<p>1. I spent eight years working in the gay press. Tracy Baim is not that highly respected. Her paper, though, has some good stuff in it.<br />
2. I know as much as anyone the value of religious transformation. People can evolve on religious-related issues, and not only for political expediency.<br />
3. I&#8217;m beginning to think Obama is the most skilled politician of the last 50 years. He&#8217;s got people thinkin he agrees with them on both sides on trade, education, the Middle East, and health care, just to name a few issues. This may just be one more example.<br />
4. If Obama&#8217;s support for civil unions instead of marriage is strategic, and not real, he has done a great job of hiding it. Whether that makes him a great politician or a lousy one is completely arguable.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Barton</title>
		<link>http://www.gaysdefendmarriage.com/2009/01/12/whatsa-motto-with-you/#comment-1990</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Barton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 08:51:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaysdefendmarriage.com/?p=119#comment-1990</guid>
		<description>Further to the above, there&#039;s been a new development which I have to say I found a bit surprising, because the last time I looked I found nothing but strategic vagueness. It turns out Obama _did_ support gay marriage in 1996, and did say point blank in 2004 that he wasn&#039;t then supporting gay marriage &quot;primarily just as a strategic issue&quot;: http://www.windycitymediagroup.com/gay/lesbian/news/ARTICLE.php?AID=20230 .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Further to the above, there&#8217;s been a new development which I have to say I found a bit surprising, because the last time I looked I found nothing but strategic vagueness. It turns out Obama _did_ support gay marriage in 1996, and did say point blank in 2004 that he wasn&#8217;t then supporting gay marriage &#8220;primarily just as a strategic issue&#8221;: <a href="http://www.windycitymediagroup.com/gay/lesbian/news/ARTICLE.php?AID=20230" rel="nofollow">http://www.windycitymediagroup.com/gay/lesbian/news/ARTICLE.php?AID=20230</a> .</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Barton</title>
		<link>http://www.gaysdefendmarriage.com/2009/01/12/whatsa-motto-with-you/#comment-1980</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Barton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 05:59:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaysdefendmarriage.com/?p=119#comment-1980</guid>
		<description>DB: &quot;To me, Obamaâ€™s quote encapsulates my #1 (secular) reason for believing that marriage must be between a man and a woman - that it involves society â€œcarving out a special placeâ€ for the best unit of child rearing. &quot;

No, you&#039;re quoting it correctly but misrepresenting it in your paraphrase. It doesn&#039;t say a special place for the _best_ unit of child-rearing, it says a special place for the unit of child rearing most _common_ to every culture. That&#039;s not the same thing. In fact it&#039;s close to the opposite: in context it&#039;s a pointed refusal to make any defence of marriage relative to civil unions beyond an anemic one based on tradition of language (&quot;that&#039;s what the word has traditionally referred to, so we might as well keep using it for that&quot;):

&quot;For many practicing Christians, the inability to compromise may apply to gay marriage. I find such a position troublesome, particularly in a society in which Christian men and women have been known to engage in adultery or other violations of their faith without civil penalty. I believe that American society can choose to carve out a special place for the union of a man and a woman as the unit of child rearing most common to every culture. I am not willing to have the state deny American citizens a civil union that confers equivalent rights no such basic matters as hospital visitation or health insurance coverage simlpy because the people they love are of the same sex--nor am I willing to accept a readingof the Bible that considers an obscure line in Romans to be more defining of Christianity than the Sermon on the Mount.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DB: &#8220;To me, Obamaâ€™s quote encapsulates my #1 (secular) reason for believing that marriage must be between a man and a woman &#8211; that it involves society â€œcarving out a special placeâ€ for the best unit of child rearing. &#8221;</p>
<p>No, you&#8217;re quoting it correctly but misrepresenting it in your paraphrase. It doesn&#8217;t say a special place for the _best_ unit of child-rearing, it says a special place for the unit of child rearing most _common_ to every culture. That&#8217;s not the same thing. In fact it&#8217;s close to the opposite: in context it&#8217;s a pointed refusal to make any defence of marriage relative to civil unions beyond an anemic one based on tradition of language (&#8220;that&#8217;s what the word has traditionally referred to, so we might as well keep using it for that&#8221;):</p>
<p>&#8220;For many practicing Christians, the inability to compromise may apply to gay marriage. I find such a position troublesome, particularly in a society in which Christian men and women have been known to engage in adultery or other violations of their faith without civil penalty. I believe that American society can choose to carve out a special place for the union of a man and a woman as the unit of child rearing most common to every culture. I am not willing to have the state deny American citizens a civil union that confers equivalent rights no such basic matters as hospital visitation or health insurance coverage simlpy because the people they love are of the same sex&#8211;nor am I willing to accept a readingof the Bible that considers an obscure line in Romans to be more defining of Christianity than the Sermon on the Mount.&#8221;</p>
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